An Interview With General Lee
by Capt. George W. Pepper, Chaplain, 80th Ohio Volunteers

Rev. George W. Pepper

When the army of General Sherman, with which I was connected, was making its famous homeward march to Washington, it rested for a few days in Richmond. Accompanied by General Geary, afterwards governor of Pennsylvania, and provided with a letter of introduction from General Hazen, who knew General Lee at West Point, I made my mind to call and interview the Rebel commander. Ringing the bell with considerable anxiety, I awaited the result of my rash attempt to get a glimpse of the most gallant and most illustrious man of the South. Quickly there appeared at the door a good-looking mulatto, who awaited my demand. 

“Can I see General Lee?” was the simple question I put on this occasion. “This is not the regular day when he receives company, and he has not yet entertained any visitors, but –“ and he surveyed me with a hesitating air, not knowing what to say next. I observed, “Perhaps he would see a chaplain of Sherman’s army in his private parlor for a few moments.” “Your name, sir?” he asked. “Chaplain Pepper, of the Fifteenth Corps of the Army of the Tennessee.” Giving him General Hazen’s letter, he quickly disappeared and in a few moments returned, saying it was all right, and for me to walk into the parlor. I took my seat upon a very plain sofa. The house was simplicity itself. There were no rich carpets, soft cushions, elegant furniture. There was not a wall decoration, nothing to attract attention, - a few chairs, a table covered with pictures of battlefields; but absolutely nothing that betokened that this was the home of the mightiest man in the South. 

My musings were soon interrupted by General Lee, who, with an easy and beautiful simplicity of manner, bade me welcome to his home. The events of this long and disastrous war had left their traces on his face. If there is anything in the science of physiognomy, there was certainly a remarkable correspondence between the person of General Lee and his mental and moral constitution. Both bespoke the worthy development of the entire man; no feature was found in excess, and none defective; dignified in carriage, with an elastic step, and easy and graceful in all his movements. His features were regularly handsome, his complexion fair. A full-orbed, beaming and ample forehead; a mouth that indicated great sweetness and firmness; and diffused, over all, a radiant and happy expression that bespoke the clear intelligence of his mind and the benevolence of his heart. It was with a thrilling interest that I know beheld this celebrated man. He seemed still to be in the prime of life; but his magnificent hair was silvered, the fire in his brilliant eyes was in some measure dimmed, and there were marks of age upon his brow. There was a dignity in his bearing, a grandeur in the poise of his head, which a consciousness of his position would impart. At the same time I thought there was a slight expression of sadness piercing through his smile. Perhaps he was beginning to see the hollowness of all that he had adored, and to experience how many thorns line the pillow of a hopeless and disastrous revolution. 

I conversed with him upon a variety of topics, upon all of which he expressed opinions. He was very positive in his convictions, and seemed to have weighed every sentence with studied care. The telegraph wires having recently announced the news of Lincoln’s assassination, this naturally was the first subject of conversation. In speaking of the martyred President, he said: “The death of that eminent citizen has filled me with horror. If there were blemishes in his character, his life exhibited some splendid and rare virtues. He was one of the most extraordinary men that ever lived in our country. His heart was grand and large. He was constitutionally pensive. Had he been spared, the South would have been treated with honorable propriety and with gallant generosity; his good-will and friendliness would have marked his treatment of the Southern people.” 

He pronounced Booth “a cowardly ruffian”, affirming that “the soldiers of the Southern army and people regard the murder of Lincoln, not only as a crime against our Christian civilization and our common humanity, but that his loss at this moment was a terrible loss to the vanquished, who would have to bear the responsibility of the cruel, cold-blooded assassination; that the spirit of clemency, moderation, and of conciliation displayed by the President were virtues not to be found in his successor. Let the avenger’s arms,” he continued to say, his eyes moistened by tears, “fall upon the guilty. Should this be the course adopted by the authorities at Washington, their greatest victory is yet before them” that “a more shining page in their annals would be written, and that the sublimest example of magnanimity and self-government would be set.” 

To my question, “Do you think the Rebellion is ended?” he replied, very emphatically, “yes, sir; and had it not been for the politicians it would never have been commenced.” The politicians to whom he referred were Davis, Yancey, Breckinridge, and Toombs, and others whose names he mentioned. He went on to say: “I was opposed to war at the outset. I wept when I heard of the bombardment of Fort Sumter! I sought retirement, so that I might not see or hear any of the political leaders, the great end and aim of whose statesmanship was to precipitate the havoc that subsequently swept their fields and cities. But when Virginia, my native state, seceded, there was only one course for me to pursue; namely, follow her fortunes.” 

General Lee now adverted to the character of General grant, of whom he spoke in the most friendly words and terms. He ascribed him the most noble attributes of American manhood, saying that he possessed all the requisites and talents for the organization of armies. At the present hour, when not a few apprehensive gentlemen and reckless partisans are charging the illustrious Ex-President with Caesarism and with desperate ambitions to overthrow the government, it will be some satisfaction to his many friends to learn the high estimate in which he was held by the Southern chieftain. In the generous terms accorded to the impoverished South, Grant won for himself imperishable renown, and they furnish a shining example of how nobly he could sympathize with the vanquished. In no quarter of the world has there been such magnanimity as that shown by Grant, and of all the laurels won by the mighty captain in our immortal struggle, the greenest and freshest of them is his splendid conduct to Lee and his soldiers. 

“I wish” said General Lee, “to do simple justice to General Grant, when I say that his treatment of the Army of Southern Virginia is without a parallel in the history of the civilized world. When my poor soldiers, with famished faces, had neither food nor raiment, it was then that General grant immediately issued the humane order that forty thousand rations should be immediately furnished to the impoverished troops. And that was not all of his magnanimity. I was giving directions to one of my staff officers, when making out the list of things to be surrendered, to include the horses. At that moment General Grant, who seemed to be paying no attention to what was transpiring, quickly said: ‘No, no, General! Not a horse, not one – keep them all! Your people will need them for the spring crops!’” 

It was a scene never to be forgotten to watch Lee’s manner, which, when, with a spirit of chivalry equal to his skill and gallantry, he told, with moistened eyes, this and many other instances of the magnanimity so nobly displayed by his illustrious rival.

The conversation turned to General Sherman. The Southern papers were criticizing very sharply Sherman’s march through Georgia and the Carolinas, and I asked General Lee what his opinion was of the great flanker. He said, in substance: “It has been observed that there is no character so uniformly bright as not to possess some dark stain; but while we assent to the truth of this observation, that charity which hopeth all things should lead us to believe that there are no hearts so darkly vicious as not to be illuminated by some beams of the light of virtue. To suppose Sherman an exception to this rule would be illiberal. The unbounded license which he allowed his soldiers in the states of Georgia and the Carolinas has greatly aggravated the horrors of war. As a strategist and commander of men, Sherman has displayed the highest order of military genius. Throughout his recent campaign, when he had to pass through an unknown country, cross rivers, support his troops, etc., he certainly exhibited a singleness of purpose, a fertility of resource, which wins him a high place among the soldiers if history. He seems to be cool without apathy, cautious without being dilatory, patient without being dispirited, personally brave without being rash. Judged by Napoleon’s test, ‘Who did all that?” he is, in my opinion, the most successful of the Federal officers who have played a prominent part in the history of the war.” 

In the course of the conversation he spoke of Sheridan as a most brilliant and magnetic commander. I asked him who was the greatest of the Federal generals. 

“Indeed, sir, I have no hesitation in saying General Grant. Both as a gentleman and as an organizer of victorious war, General Grant has excelled all your most noted soldiers. He has exhibited more true courage, more real greatness of mind, more consummate prudence from the outset, and more heroic bravery, than anyone on your side.” 

Gen. Robert E. Lee at his home in Richmond.

To the question, “What was the cause of the failure of the South?” the General smilingly said: “I am not a very good extemporaneous speaker, nor am I a very good extemporaneous answerer of questions. The most conspicuous reason was the superiority in men and in resources of the North. The United States had all the advantages – a land of boundless wealth, cities secure from the horrors of civil war, and a constant stream of emigrants to fill up the depleted ranks of the armies. With five to one against them, the Southerners performed a mighty work, and made a gigantic step toward their independence.” 

“Another cause lay in the vanity of many of our people. The first battles of the war being favorable to us, the South was wild with confidence, and the whole country was thrown into a ferment of excitement. It was doubtful, indeed, whether one in a thousand of our people supposed for a moment that there was any doubt of an immediate and successful termination to the struggle. The public meetings were in every case too enthusiastic. The people were carried away by acclamation. The cheering proved our folly. This excess of confidence lost us New Orleans and many other cities.” 

“A much more serious difficulty arose from the mistaken view of the Southern cause taken by the philanthropists of the Old World. They were led to believe that we were fighting for the perpetuity of slavery, and that the establishment of the Confederacy would lead to the reopening of the African slave trade. This opinion shook the faith of great and good men in the humanity and righteousness of the South. The conscript law was another effective check to our success. Instead of being a benefit, it was a curse, a badge of disgrace. The rich were favored; falsehood and dissimulation were its natural results; suspicion and mistrust arose where confidence and reliance should have happily prevailed. The attitude preserved by Mr. Davis and other leaders in opposition to the arming of the Negroes, a policy which I always believed to be expedient, proved to be disastrous. The widespread poverty of the country, accompanied by the just conviction that all further efforts were hopeless, - these and other forces worked to one final result, the failure of the Confederacy.” 

Our next topic of conversation was the foreign element in the armies. Speaking of the Irish, he declared with much feeling that the South could not reconcile with their notions of consistency and honor how Northern Irishmen, who were so desperately and violently opposed to the thralldom of Britain – the wrongs of Ireland being mosquito bites beside the enormous injuries which had been inflicted by the North upon the South – how liberty loving Irishmen could fight against Southerners contending for independence and equality of rights. I suggested that the soldiers of Irish origin in our armies were really bewildered to know how Irishmen who for centuries had gallantly contended for freedom of the Celts, could be so inconsistent and recreant to every sense of right as to be engaged in a war for a government whose cornerstone was slavery. Besides that, though Irishmen were revolutionists at home, they were conservatives in the United States, and there was a great difference between a war in the interest of a downtrodden race and that in favor of the propagation of slavery. 

Adverting to the character of the Irish soldiers, the general was very enthusiastic, saying that they played a prominent part in the wars of the world for the last three centuries, now on one side, now on the other. “The Irish soldier fights not so much for lucre as from a reckless love of adventure, and, moreover, with a chivalrous devotion to the cause he espouses for the time being. Cleburne, on our side, inherited the intrepidity of his race. On a field of battle he shone like a meteor on a clouded sky! As a dashing military man he was all virtue; a single vice does not stain him as a warrior. His generosity and benevolence had no limits. The care which he took of the fortunes of his officers and soldiers, from the greatest to the least, was incessant. His integrity was proverbial, and his modesty was an equally conspicuous trait in his character.” 

“Meagher on your side, though not Cleburne’s equal in military genius, rivaled him in bravery and in the affections of his soldiers. The gallant stand which his bold brigade made on the heights of Fredericksburg is well known. Never were men so brave. They ennobled their race by their splendid gallantry on that occasion. Thought totally routed, they reaped harvests of glory! Their brilliant though hopeless assaults upon our lines excited the hearty applause of my officers and soldiers, and General Hill exclaimed, ‘There are those damned green flags again!’” 

Referring to the great loss sustained by the Confederacy in the death of Stonewall Jackson, General Lee remarked: “In surprises, marches, and in the art of creating the resources of war, Jackson has surpassed the level of his age, and risen to a comparison with Hannibal and Napoleon, the two greatest commanders of ancient and modern times. In every relation of private and public life his character was perfect. The South has produced some abler soldiers, and a few in point of military talent were his equals; but it can not and never could boast of one more beloved; not by personal friends alone, but by every soldier and officer that served under him. His dispatches, even when announcing the grandest successes, were brief statements of fact, unvarnished. Many such statements as this would occur: ‘We are about to open the campaign. I have prayed earnestly to God that he will enable me to pass through it in his fear, knowing no greater earthly blessing than to have a conscience at ease in the discharge of duty.’” 

I left the presence of this distinguished gentleman with the consciousness that pride, hatred, revenge, had no place in his noble nature, and that, having lowered his colors and sheathed his sword, he was fully entitled to the consideration and respect of the gallant soldier to whom he surrendered. It is needless for me to say that, in my opinion, had he lived, he would fully have upheld in the most distinguished manner the Union of the states, the reconciliation of all classes, and the prosperity and happiness of the whole country. Foremost amongst the Confederates, and first in peace, Gen. Robert E. Lee was not only a chivalrous gentleman, but he was eminently a Christian. In all his acts he was gifted with so rare a kindliness of demeanor that he never made a quarrel with anyone. His brief though brilliant experience as instructor of the young men of the South after the war closed, gave the strongest evidence of his loyalty and goodness of heart, and clearly presaged the glory which would have crowned his career had his life been spared.